Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: At the heart of Christianity is the atonement of Jesus Christ. But how much do we really know about his atoning sacrifice? Well, we have some really good news for you. There is a significant handbook that can teach you so much about Christ's atonement. And even better news, it's not going to cost you as much as a college handbook. And you probably already own it. Welcome to Jesus Christ in Finding Christ on Every Page. I'm Tammy Usulak hall, and I'm here with Dr. Donald W. Perry. And in this series, we're going to take the Old Testament, teach you some Hebrew and talk about Christ the entire time. So grab your scriptures and you're going to want to be sure to grab something to mark them with, and let's dive into this significant handbook. Hi, Don.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: Hi. It's so good to be here. Thank you for that introduction.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: Okay, first, before we even get into anything, you need to know who this man is. I have just read so much of his works. I've used many things that he's written to teach from. He is an exemplary scholar. And so, Idan, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself? Because I could talk forever about you. You're a professor of Hebrew. You have PhD. Actually, we'll call you Dr. Donald W. Perry. You study the Dead Sea Scrolls. Like, tell us a little bit about yourself.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: I've actually been teaching full time for 33 years. Teaching full time the Hebrew Bible, which is the Old Testament in the original language. 33 years. There are two of us at our university that teach full time teach the Hebrew Bible. I also do research on the Dead Sea Scrolls.
That's what I do. I've been a member of the translation team since January 1994.
And I love it. Love it.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: And not many people can say that. Not many people have actually been with Dead Sea Scrolls and to touch them. But you weren't allowed to touch them, is that right?
[00:01:41] Speaker B: That's correct. We're not allowed to touch them.
[00:01:43] Speaker A: Well, one of the things I love about Donald W. Perry is when I started studying Hebrew, I got a workbook from the Jewish Community center where I was taking Hebrew class. And he was cited as a source in this Jewish workbook. And that made me so happy because I told my professor, I know he didn't believe me, but I did. I know Dr. Donald W. Perry. So it is such a treat for us to be able to learn from him and we're going to have some fun with this significant handbook. So, Don, why don't you just hit it dive into this book and what we can learn in Hebrew about Jesus Christ.
[00:02:12] Speaker B: Thank you very much.
The chief objective of this episode is to establish that the Old Testament is a Jesus Christ focused set of texts. All scripture focuses on Jesus Christ. Prophets and seers. Chief message to the world's inhabitants is Jesus Christ, his birth, his character, mortal ministry, sufferings, atoning, sacrifice, his death and resurrection, Second coming and the millennial reign, and much more. Joseph Smith taught this really important truth. Quote, the fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the apostles and prophets and concerning Jesus Christ, that he died, was buried and rose again the third day and ascended into heaven. And all other things that pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.
And I'd like to quote also Jacob, the brother of Nephi. Behold, that means pay attention. I say unto you that none of the prophets have written nor prophesied save they have spoken concerning this Christ.
So it's a privilege to talk about Jesus Christ.
In this introduction. I have four preliminary items before we begin.
One is Sister hall and I will be giving glimpses into the scriptures. We're not going to cover the full reading list from Come, follow me. That'd be impossible. That would take years. That'd take years just to get through the book of Genesis and many more years to get through Isaiah.
So we're going to do sometimes a single verse of Scripture or a Hebrew word. Number two, as a professor of the Hebrew Bible, I just wanted to let people know that I teach Biblical Hebrew full time. As I stated earlier. I also teach what's called Qumran Hebrew, which are the Dead Sea Scrolls, the actual Hebrew. And I teach Mishnaic Hebrew, which is the Hebrew of the Mishnah that dates to 200 BC to 200 AD.
And this is what I do. This is my profession. My full time job is to teach and research and publish papers and to travel. And with two of us teaching Biblical Hebrew full time, we take it very seriously that we need to get the word out. Number three, Sister hall and I will be using the Leningrad Codex as our primary text supplemented by the Dead Sea Scrolls. And number four, I want to show you. We'll use four well known scholarly lexicons or dictionaries and I have a little show and tell. This is one of them. It's called a Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament. I'm not suggesting that people buy this. It's expensive and you have to be able to read Hebrew to use it.
[00:04:56] Speaker A: Little tip, I'm just going to Throw this out there. Because when I first took my first Hebrew class ever, ten years ago, I bought the dictionary. I was super excited, and I opened it up. It's all in Hebrew. And so I realized, oh, I gotta learn the Alphabet first. So I made the mistake. I bought all the dictionaries, but now I can use them, which is really fun. But I was so silly thinking that. But I will say this. 10 years ago is when I began studying Hebrew. It took me a full year just to learn the Alphabet. So anyone out there who's like, I could never. You could. I promise you can learn Hebrew. I'm still learning it. I always joke I will be a lifelong student of the Hebrew language. I am constantly trying to learn. And. But so just. I had little kids and I'm trying to learn the Alphabet, so it's absolutely doable.
[00:05:34] Speaker B: I agree.
[00:05:34] Speaker A: Just don't buy this yet.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Just a funny little story about this. I want the viewers to see how thick it is. It's a big book, but I bought this in the mid-1980s.
[00:05:45] Speaker A: Oh, really?
[00:05:46] Speaker B: And I left it at home one day, and my wife was babysitting neighbor kids, and I came home that day, and some of the pages that have crayon. They've taken crayon and just use crayon. I'll show you one more of the lexicons, just so you can see what they look like. These are two big volumes and a small font. Very small font. So these are two of the four lexicons that Sister hall and I will be using.
I do not recommend Strong's Concordance. I do not. I do not. If someone wants me to pursue this further, I will. But Strong's Concordance is.
It's an index. It's not a lexicon, and it's only as good as the English translation.
[00:06:30] Speaker A: And it's not a scholarly source, so just don't even go there.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: No, I decided to show this photo of me studying the great Isaiah Scroll. I'm in the shrine of the book in the basement in the Israel Museum. It's 1997. That's me with the magnifying glass. The isaiah scroll is 23ft 6 inches long. And I've published two books on this topic. I'm not suggesting you buy them. One is entirely in Hebrew. The other one has thousands of Hebrew words in it. I'm just telling you, this is my background. This is what I do. So I have special permission to access the Dead Sea Scrolls in Jerusalem, the actual scrolls. I have a couple of funny stories that I might Tell down the road, but not right now.
[00:07:12] Speaker A: I just have to ask.
[00:07:13] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:07:13] Speaker A: Were you a little bit tempted to touch them?
[00:07:15] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:07:15] Speaker A: Okay, good.
Yeah. Like the kid in me would be like, they're so. I just want to.
[00:07:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I was.
And to get into this place, it's like going into two bank vaults. You go through one door that's locked and you go through the door and then you wait with the guard in this hallway for a computer system telling someone there's someone in the hallway and now they're locked in. Then you go through another locked door and then you're inside there. So it's just very special to be there now. In the Liahona, April 2022, I published an article. It was very much peer reviewed because it's in the Liahona and I wanted to point out some things about the article. I'm going to quote from it. The Old Testament was the Savior's Bible, the one he read and cited during mortality. The Old Testament was and still is a magnificent, exceptional set of scriptural texts. It is singular and unparalleled. Why? Because it's the first Testament of Christ.
It is a significant handbook on the Savior's atonement. It is the foundational document designed to prepare the world for the Savior's coming in the flesh when he would die for us. Just think of how significant that is. Well, yeah.
[00:08:35] Speaker A: And this first one that you pointed out is so significant because when I read this, I imagined. I wonder if at any point the Savior was reading, thinking, this is me, like it is talking about me. And when that he made that connection, especially when he read Isaiah 60 and he read those first verses and he recited them to the men in Jerusalem. I wonder like, that's him. It's so cool to think. I love that you pointed that out.
[00:08:57] Speaker B: I love it. Love it. The Old Testament is a record that contains hundreds of symbols that reveal Jesus Christ and his atonement. It is a record that presents scores of prophecies about Jesus Christ and his divine mission. In short, the Old Testament is a scriptural work that reveals the Lord as the Savior, Redeemer and Great Atoner. When Jesus Christ commanded search the Scriptures. They are they which testify of me. He was referring to the Old Testament. Now, from time to time over the years, I've heard people say, the Old Testament's not relevant. It has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. In fact, very recently, I heard someone say to another person, don't read the Old Testament. Christ is not found there. But the Old Testament is indeed Relevant to us today. We have a forthcoming episode on Old Testament myths and we'll talk about some of those.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, it's good.
[00:09:50] Speaker B: The Old Testament is exceptionally significant, vitally important. It has everything to do with the Savior, Jesus Christ. Now, I identify the Old Testament as a significant handbook on the Savior's atonement. So what do I mean by handbooks?
I've got some show and tell here. I'll show you in a minute. But there are hundreds of handbooks published in English for people to use. I'll give you five or six examples. The Psychology Majors Handbook. A Handbook of Civilization.
A Nursing Handbook. I've heard the Nursing Handbook is a book that will really test your patience.
A welding handbook. Someone told me that it's riveting. A Handbook of Physiology. A Wool Sheep. Wool Handbook.
Agrochemicals Handbook. Rice. Just on rice. The Food Handbook. Soybean Handbook. The Rivers Handbook. Flight Handbook. Popcorn Handbook. That sounds good. So I brought a handful of just to show everyone how big it is. Welding Handbook.
Just very quickly and I wool see how big it is. A wool handbook.
Corrosion Handbook. I checked all of these out at the library. I don't own these.
I don't have time to read them. The Rivers Handbook and A Handbook of Algebra. And I just want you to see. It still looks brand new. It doesn't look like it's used at all.
[00:11:17] Speaker A: It would in my house for sure.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: All right, so. So the Old Testament is the Savior's handbook. The Savior's atonement. Now, when we say atonement in the Old Testament, we look for more words than the word atonement. But the word atonement occurs about 100 times.
But you have other associated terms. To save or Savior. To redeem or Redeemer blood. 88 times alone in the book of Leviticus. To sacrifice and sacrifices. These are all related to the atonement of Jesus Christ. Offerings, burnt offerings. Sin, grain, peace and guilt. Offerings. Several festivals. The Day of atonement. Passover, first fruits and others.
Priests, high priest. Priesthood, Ransom to ransom, cleansing and purity. And would you read the second half?
[00:12:09] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Animals, blemished and unblemished. Female and male animals. Bulls, heifers, lambs, goats and pigeons. We have sins, iniquities and transgressions. Anointing and oil. Frankincense, the laying on of hands. Forgiveness. Holy and profane opposites. Ceremonial, clean and unclean opposites. The Ark of the Covenant. Plus many others.
[00:12:32] Speaker B: Thank you. And just so everyone knows, any one of these could be a thesis master's Thesis or dissertation or a monograph or a book or something. There is that much material.
So the Old Testament is indeed a handbook on Jesus Christ.
[00:12:50] Speaker A: And I like that because like we said at the beginning, it's not going to cost you a lot. I mean, here's my handbook. It's very well worn and used. I actually have. I use a couple of them. This is the one I carry around, but the one I actually use is huge because it's got sides where it has lines so I can put notes in my scriptures. And it. I actually took it to speak somewhere and I was using it on the podium, and afterwards a woman came up and she said, well, what book were you reading out of? And I go, it's my Bible. And she said, that's gigantic. Like, she thought I was reading out of some random book. So get whatever you can. You're going to want scriptures that you can keep notes in, because this is going to be your handbook for the rest of this year.
[00:13:25] Speaker B: And here's my handbook also. But I also use the Hebrew Bible. This is the scholarly edition. She does, too. We both have them.
She. This is a scholarly edition. It's really small font. And I have a larger font copy too. But. So the Hebrew Bible looks like this.
At least the scholarly edition looks like this. And I have it taped because I've worn it out over, for sure, 30, 40 years. I have about six of these in different places at home and in my office and so on.
Yes, yes.
[00:14:01] Speaker A: I'm just curious.
[00:14:02] Speaker B: And just so everyone knows, there are two other handbooks of the atonement of Jesus Christ, the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants. And I testify to everyone we have, we're blessed to have three significant works on the atonement of Jesus Christ.
Now, the Old Testament is the foundational document designed to prepare the world for the Savior's coming to the flesh when he would die for us.
The chief apostle Peter testified to him, give all the prophets witness that through his name, whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. The Old Testament is a record that contains hundreds of symbols that reveal Jesus Christ and his atonement. And on the right, I've got the name Jehovah written in paleo, Hebrew and Hebrew.
[00:14:57] Speaker A: And remember, it reads right to left, so you want to make sure you go that direction when you're writing it or teaching it.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: In these podcasts, Sister hall and I over the weeks and months will point out dozens and scores of symbols that reveal Jesus Christ. For now, I'm going To point out one, just one, right now.
[00:15:13] Speaker A: Oh, I like this one.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: I love this one. It's so unusual. It's the idea of putting your hands on the head of an animal before it's sacrificed.
[00:15:22] Speaker A: Now tell me why you like this one.
[00:15:24] Speaker B: Because there are passages that tell us what it means.
Sometimes the head of the household would put the hands on the animal. It might be a lamb.
There's a discussion among the rabbis 2,000 years ago. Does this include the mother? Does she get to do it, too? Some say yes and some say no. We might get into that later.
[00:15:43] Speaker A: I'd like to say yes.
[00:15:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd like to say yes, too. So. And what happens? And sometimes it's the priest or Levites, and what happens is put the hands on the head of the animal and then symbolically, your sins or the sins of your family transfer through your hands to the animal.
So the animal now has your sins. And then it's a sacrificial offering pointing to Jesus Christ. Totally pointing to Jesus Christ. I just love the symbolism here. I'm going to read one passage.
Then the Levites shall lay their hands on the heads of the bulls, and you shall offer the one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering to the Lord to make atonement. See, there's a connection. To make an atonement for the Levites. That's one. We'll look at a lot more. We have a lot.
[00:16:34] Speaker A: And we'll look at that word atonement, which I love. I can't wait till we get to that discussion. Because that word.
Yeah, it's good.
[00:16:43] Speaker B: The Old Testament's a record that presents scores of prophecies about Jesus Christ. Would you please read this?
[00:16:49] Speaker A: I'd love to. Yes. He was pierced for our transgressions. He was crushed for our iniquities. With his wounds, we are healed all. We, like sheep, have gone astray. We have turned everyone to his own way, and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth. Like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before it shears, is silent. So he opened not his mouth.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: How can you not read and fill this and not know it? Speaking of Jesus Christ, look at the first expression. He was pierced.
And that's for the Hebrew, the reason I chose the esv. The King James here says he was wounded, but the Hebrew word is clearly, he was pierced for our transgressions. We're going to return to this when we get to Isaiah, which is probably in October.
[00:17:40] Speaker A: And I'm glad you brought up the English Standard Version, because oftentimes we wonder, can we use different translations? And what would you answer to that?
[00:17:46] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. The King James is our official and I know of reasons which I won't bring up now, but reasons that it is, and rightly so. And I still love it. Yes, I love the language and so on, but sometimes I want to show them maybe a better translation here and there.
[00:18:05] Speaker A: And sometimes the ESV really does honor the Hebraic meanings. So I like the esv.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: I do, too.
It's a good one, and a lot of scholars are using it for the public when they're not in the Hebrew. So the object of our podcast or Jesus Christ in Scripture for the Old Testament. Come follow me. Year is designed to demonstrate the numerous and meaningful ways that the Old Testament serves as the first Testament of Jesus Christ. The Old Testament's a powerful witness of Christ. It presents numerous prophecies, scores and names and titles of the Lord and several straightforward statements in Isaiah, especially that Jehovah is our Savior and our Redeemer. Just explicit. How can people miss this?
And also hundreds of symbols and types and shadows. And we'll discuss what's a type, what's a shadow, and so on. We'll do that down the road. And every wit W H I t that's a Book of Mormon term. Every wit of the Law of Moses points to Christ. Wow. Now there's a priestly blessing in the Book of Numbers, and I'd like to just state it and apply it to all of us. It's so powerful. The Lord bless thee and keep thee.
The Lord make his face shine upon thee and be gracious unto thee. The Lord lift up his countenance upon thee and give thee peace.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: One of the things I love about this blessing is that I went through and studied it in Hebrew and I picked out certain words that really stood out to me. One of the words that I want to share with you in this verse of Scripture is the word keep. At the very beginning, the Lord bless thee and keep thee in your scripture circle. The word keep. That word in Hebrew is shamar. And what it means is to guard, to protect. And I really like it means to preserve. And I like preserve Don, because my husband has a garden. And one of the things we do is and I just learned it after I got married, I did not know I'd be in the business of preserving or bottling, but the amount of work and effort it takes to preserve or make preserves or preserve the tomatoes or the sauce. It takes a whole day. And you have to have a careful watch over everything you're doing. And so when I thought of that word that the Lord will bless thee and keep thee, I just imagine him in my kitchen watching over me, making sure I don't burn, making sure that it actually turns out. And then to preserve that whole process takes time and a certain amount of temperature it has to get to. It's. It's so intricate and so involved. And I love that this blessing right here is saying that the Lord will bless thee, but he will keep thee. He will shamar you. He will guard you, protect you, and preserve you. And that is the beauty of this whole year. When we're talking about the Old Testament and we're talking about Jesus Christ, we get to find him on every page. We get to learn about him, and we get to understand why he loves us so much that he would take the time to preserve us or keep us. So we thank you for joining us. This is our first episode. We look forward to many more with you as we dive into Jesus Christ in the scriptures. Shalom and goodbye, Sam.
